We are all former students at Lakenheath High School and other public schools in East Anglia. We were in school in the 70s and 80s and drank deeply from the well of British culture of those decades - the pints, the telly, and of course the footie!
Live from Nashville, it's....oh, you know what. Listen, this thing is over bar the counting. The only way that Obama could lose at this point is if he lit one up with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers on stage tonight. But, being a good social studies teacher at heart, I'm still watching. Are you?
posted by The Blue Devil @ 8:32 PM
We are all former students at Lakenheath High School and other public schools in East Anglia. We were in school in the 70s and 80s and drank deeply from the well of British culture of those decades - the pints, the telly, and of course the footie!
62 Comments:
According to the media hacks, this is the sequel in which Johnny Mac has to "get personal." That means that the drinking game theme tonight is all about distractions. So do a shot for every reference to Rezko, Ayers, Wright or Freudian slips of "Osama" for "Obama."
Here we go, then. It's a "town hall" forum tonight moderated by that old NBC mumbler Tom Brokaw. Let's be having ya!
Obama up first - and it's a question from some baldy git about "the fastest bailout solution."
Obama - "it's the final verdict on the failed policies of the Bush administration." Step 1 is the rescue package.
McCain's up next and he's obviously going out of his way to be friendly and engaging after the heat he took last week for not looking at Obama.
He's pitching the T. Boone Pickens plan to move away from "foreign oil." Typical demagoguery.
Now he's on about stabilizing home prices. I thought that that was the province of the market and supply and demand, Senator.
Now McCain is asked about his choice for treasury and he mentions Meg Whitman.
Obama plugs Warren Buffett. Yuck. I'd prefer Jimmy.
McCain goes out of his way to scold a questioner for the temerity of calling the bailout package a "bailout." He prefers "rescue."
Now he's blaming Fannie and Freddie on Obama and hinting that poor people brought down the economy. Not a good moment for John.
Obama should pounce on McCain's statement about "people who couldn't afford to pay back their mortgages" and accuse McCain of blaming the victims.
Instead, he's explaining the bailout in a really wonky way. When will the Dems play hardball?
That's better - he's going after McCain's record as a deregulator.
Brokaw asks Obama if the economy is going to get worse. He takes the safe way out of that one, saying that's he's confident. Well, we all know it's going to get worse.
McCain thinks "it depends on what we do."
A hockey mom wonders how the American people can trust either of them if both parties got us into the trouble. Good question. The real answer is that we can't but they're the only two millionaires on the ballot so that's our choice. Some democracy, eh?
Obama is pounding away on the connection between Bush and McCain. That's his best card and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Now McCain has referred to the "cynicism" of the questioner. Another bad misstep there but I wonder if the spinners will pick up on these points.
This format is not working for me. It's one question and the candidate gets off the barstool, paces about spinning platitudes for a couple of minutes and parks his butt back on the barstool. Then the other gets up and so on. Booooring.
McCain is asked to prioritize health, energy and entitlement reform and he defers, taking a page out of Sarah Palin's book and instead of answering the question, says "we can do all of them." It's a dodge but it won't wash.
Obama says that we have to prioritize but then he doesn't prioritize the three items. Come on, guys, this is a middle school social studies question. Here's my priority:
1. Energy
2. Health care
3. Entitlements reform
Not hard, was it?
Whoops, I spoke too soon. Obaam got around to listing his priorities but then he stuck education in there at #3. That's not gonna get my vote, mate!
Good question from a 78 year old. What sacrifices would they ask Americans to make.
McCain wants to eliminate some programs. Let me guess - Meals on Wheels, Head Start, Medicaid. Am I getting warm?
Oh, he wants to eliminates earmarks. Well, how come you voted for the bailout larded with earmarks, then?
Obama wants all of us to think about how we use energy. Uh oh, here comes the lousy "clean coal" stuff. Lord, I wish he'd cut that out. And the Ethanol boondoggle too.
We're half an hour in and I don't see how this debate has moved the campaign at all. McCain has about an hour to rescue his campaign here. I don't see how he can do it.
Good point by Obama about how people logically look at deficit spending in Washington and extrapolate it to their lives. Yes, the fish rots from the head.
Another excellent point about McCain increasing the burden on working people. All McCain can do in response is accuse Obama of wanting to raise taxes. It's a tired charge and no one's buying it anymore.
I like Obama's analogy of using a scalpel rather than a hatchet in terms of cutting programs.
Next question is about social security. Brokaw thinks we all agree that SS is a "ticking time bomb." Oh really? I don't.
Great stuff by Obama on the unfairness of GOP policies. This is what's killing McCain this time around. It's just so plainly obvious that Republicans represent the rich.
McCain wants to reform SS and Medicare. How? Well, he doesn't really spell it out. Something about a commission of experts who will come up with recommendations. I notice he's not backing the privatization proposals of the Bush administration now as he once did. Because that idea was DOA and is radioactive now in the light of the stock market crash.
A question for McCain about climate change. He's claiming that he's disagreed strongly with Bush on the issue. Oh really? He's prescription is nuclear power. Ever heard of Three Mile Island, John? Okay then, we'll park a reactor right behind each of your nine houses then. Alright by you?
Brokaw is getting to sound like a middle school librarian. What a nag!
McCain is getting meaner and more desperate. He just referred to Obama as "that one." And Obama just smiled at him serenely. He knows that McCain is toast.
Well, TBD, I was trying to stick it out but McCain's claim that he was going to "answer the question" about SS/Medicare (like Obama hadn't) and then proceeded to spout inane-isms put me over the edge. I'm done. I'd rather read your comments...
A question on health care for Obama now. "Should health care be a commodity?" Great question.
I wish he'd answer it with a simple "No" but instead he's waffling on about how tough Main Street people have it.
He's much better at trashing McCain's proposals than in selling his own. Interesting.
Hi Bivalve. I'm glad you're following along. What do think - has this debate changed anything? I don't think it has. It's either a draw or advantage Obama.
McCain's talking about "choice" now, an obvious code word for privatization. He also hasn't addressed the issue of taxing Medicare benefits.
I think the people that have made up their minds won't be swayed. Those folks who still are undecided will find to plenty to find fault with on either side, depending on which way they lean. McCain is laying heavy on the "my friends" schlock and the "ra-ra" blinkered Americanisms, which play very well to his base. Obama is being a bit of pansy, in my opinion, and is flailing a bit. He's got to stop riding the fence and pull out the big guns for once. Show some backbone.
Sigh.
Finally, Obama says that health care is a right. Thank you so much. Yes!
Now he's slapping McCain around for his broad brush on the issue of mandates. Unlike Clinton, Obama only mandated that parents cover their children, something that most Americans can understand.
I agree with you. Obama's not a great debater. If the cards weren't all in his favor, this campaign would probably be much tighter. But can you see more undecideds going to McCain after tonight? I can't see it.
The undecideds are probably the most cynical among us. I can't see how two politicians slinging nothing around can sway a cynic one way or the other.
A bit of a softball question for McCain about America's role as a "peacemaker." It allows McCain to get all jingoistic about American as the "greatest force for good in the history of the earth." Yeah, then why don't people around the world agree?
Well, I think that there are probably some undecideds who are either to the right of McCain or to the left of Obama who are just trying to figure out if they can stomach voting for one or the other. If you think about it, those who were against the bailout plan, or are against the death penalty or want to deport illegal aliens or are against nuclear power or want troops out of Iraq immediately don't really have a horse in this race. Who do they vote for?
Half an hour left for McCain to dig this one out. I can't see it. We're on foreign policy at this point and Brokaw is asking about the difference between the "Obama Doctrine" and the "McCain doctrine."
I can answer that - Obama's for humanitarian intervention/imperialism and McCain's in favor of the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war.
From the traffic on Facebook, I get the sense that there are lot fewer people out there watching this debate tonight. You're probably right - most of the people who are engaged in the process have made their decisions at this point and have tuned out.
Next question is about whether the U.S. should invade Pakistan. A frightening question. Obama's already on record saying that invasion is an option that he'd have on the table. By some quirk of his idiosyncratic foreign policy, McCain is in favor of invading just about every other country...except for Pakistan. He'll not doubt pounce on Obama for this answer.
I guess the media was wrong about McCain's intentions tonight. I'll totally sober as he's yet to mention any of the bogeymen who he's mentioned all week on the stump.
McCain is completely schizophrenic about Afghanistan and Pakistan. First he talks about the "Afghan freedom fighters" who ran out the Soviets. Erm, that would be the Taliban and Al Qaeda including Osama bin Laden, John. Freedom fighters?
Then he talks about how invasion turns public opinion against the U.S. Well, why didn't he feel that way about Iraq?
I wonder if the VP debate had more of an effect than the polls show. Palin is a polarizing force - you either love her or you can't stand her. She's like Hillary that way ;-) She didn't show anything new during the debate, nor have the presidential candidates. I think that most of us have decided at this point, for all intents and purposes.
McCain promises that he's "gonna get him" in regard to Osama bin Laden, who minutes ago he referred to as a "freedom fighter." Okaaayyyyy...
I certainly don't think Palin has helped McCain beyond the solid GOP base. She created some temporary enthusiasm among the committed but that's tailed off recently. Tina Fey's impersonation has been devastating for most in the middle of the spectrum. Apparently McCain is trying to engineer an appearance for her on SNL on Thursday night to temper the effects.
Who was your pick in the primaries? Mine was Kucinich, but I've always had a knack for picking underdog no-hopers.
Yes, unfortunately they do.
Here comes the saber rattling against Russia and Putin. Hey, the Cold War's over, Gramps!
Brokaw gives the candidates the warning that we're "winding down." Hurrah! It's almost over.
Last question is from a Navy veteran. Fix!
It's about how to deal with a Iranian invasion of Israel. McCain rattles more sabers.
Despite all her flaws, I was leaning towards Hillary.
Unfortunately, instead of speaking about negotiation and peace, Obama rattles sabers at Iran as well. No wonder there are cynics out there.
Sure. I really thought she'd be the candidate this time around. And in some ways, a ticket with Clinton on the top and Obama as veep would have probably assured sixteen years of the Dems in the White House. But her Iraq vote killed her candidacy in the end.
A "Zen like" question to round things off: "What don't you know and how will you know it?"
Obama goes for a safe laugh by pointing out Michelle in the crowd and saying that she knows his faults. He follows that with a quick survey of his basic narrative.
McCain's ignoring the question entirely and is just doing the fear-mongering pitch about hidden dangers and unexpected threats. It's a little early for Halloween, isn't it John? Honestly, he would make a good haunted house fixture.
Well, that's it. So...what did you think?
Just as nauseating and depressing as every other debate I've ever tried to sit through. If just once a candidate would consistently answer the damn question they were asked, I would have some hope for this country.
Can't wait for the next one!
Agreed! Nice chatting with you tonight.
Hi Bob and Betsy,
We again were over at our friends that have a tidier living room and a big-screen TV. No contest.
I agree that no debate is likely to change anyone's mind now. These two and their Veeps are too scripted to say anything that would wildly change anyone's mind.
As for the undecided 8-10%, it can only be that the "undecided" are lying to the pollsters or really are the stupid paste-eating cretins Jon Stewart parodied after the debate. The differences in the candidates are too stark to account for any indecision on substance. Look, if McCain is not right-wing socially enough for you and you can't just hold your nose while you vote like many of us did for Bill Clinton's second election, and you don't think that his ninny Veep will have enough influence on his likely Supreme Court nominee(s), then sit this one out. That's a decision. I simply don't buy the "undecided" stance.
Last night validated my prediction that eventually, McCain would show up to a late night event and look and sound like my 85-year-old Dad; tired, old, and cranky.
Did you two catch how condescending he started out saying "most of you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before this crisis." Really? Many of us have retirement plans invested in mutual funds and ALL of those funds have some of Fannie and Freddie in them. He then snapped at the question that used the work bailout.
I too McCain looked mean when he called Obama "that one." I wonder how that played in the African American community. They could be excused for reading more into that dismissive comment than we did at first. I immediately thought it tread the line.
Bob, you're dead-on that Brokaw was a complete tool last night. I counted 5 times where he scolded them for going over, until finally even he stopped when McCain said," I see you Tom, and I'll play by your rules." Maverick? More like suck-up. Eccch.
I also noticed that because of the format and Brokaw's interferance, some of Obama's points got lost when he kept not addressing the candidate that he expected an answer. McCain just waded in on Obama's time over and over and do you think "Library-lady" had any objection to that violation of rules? Like f**k he did.
Whatever the outcome of this race, I have a feeling that there's going to be a turnover of personnel in the media. The old guard are toast and rightly so.
I did love that Daily Show bit on the "Undecideds," especially the pie chart dividing them into "Paste Eaters," "Tiger Petters," and so on. Brilliant stuff.
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