Yet Another Democratic Presidential Debate...Live!
Yes, it's another fall evening and another Democratic Presidential debate. CNN is hosting with the "Wolfman" asking the questions.Look, the Writer's Strike means that "The Office," "Earl" and "30 Rock" are in re-runs anyway; so tune in at 8 p.m. and join me on the blog, eh?
posted by gatorbob @ 7:02 PM
69 Comments:
Weird start to this debate with all of the candidates introduced boxing style. "Let's get ready to rrrrumble." Get on wi' it, already.
Message to Kucinich - ixnay on the FOUay.
CNN desperately trying to pump up the energy in what must be the 856th debate of the season. The narrative going into this debate is that Hills will have to strike back against her bullying male peers. I reckon it's a mistake. She gets really shrill and schoolmarmish when she's angry.
More weirdness. Wolf and the panelists engaging in some pre-debate shenigans right before the candidates. Now there's a huge pause of dead air while Wolf stares into the camera. What a bunch of amateurs. We're five minutes in and no one's said anything yet!
Hillary tries a joke to start things off - "this pants suit is asbestos." She's been asked about being a triangulator and of course she's triangulating straight away and Wolf lets her get away with it.
Wolf tees it up to Obama....
And he accuses her of not being straight with the American people. I can't believe he's trotting out the driver's license issue, though. What a non-issue. It's Fox News fodder. Move on.
He talks about breaking out of the gridlock of Washington partisanship but what the hell has he done during his time in the Senate?
Hills taking him to task for just this. Now on to health care.
Now back to Obama - are there only two people on the stage tonight? Sheesh!
And now back to Hillary. This is ping pong, not debating.
Neither is really for a national health care plan; they're both in favor of private insurance, so what's with the argument?
The crowd's getting really rowdy, I think because they're not allowing the other six on the stage to get a word in. Move on.
Finally Edwards gets in on this. He speaks to having a President who will "restore trust." How so? Turning up the heat on Hillary on her positions on Iraq and Iran.
Edwards getting some loud applause and cheers for railing against Washington corruption. Hillary trying to get a word in in response. More noise from the crowd. Now Hillary's getting heckled. Is there any security in the hall?
Hillary's raking Edwards over for his previous positions. Now she's calling for a positive agenda.
Biden does a nice job poking fun at Wolf Blitzer there. Humor really is his best weapon. While Hillary comes off as stiff and wooden when she tries humor, he's genuinely funny.
Biden's laying it on thick about his thirty five years of experience on foreign policy. Yep, the kind of experience that leads him to favor cutting up Iraq into three pieces.
Now John Roberts gets booed for lobbing another question at Hillary.
Edwards: "When is our party going to show some backbone?" Hear hear!
Dodd's turn. He thinks that the debate is shrill. What, he wants boring?
The phrase "dancing on the head of a pin" is running through my head. These pinheads are all pretty much in the same place beyond the heat.
Richardson - Edwards wants a "class war." Obama a "generational war." He wants to "give peace a chance." Give me a break!
Wolf going down the line on whether candidates will support a Democratic nominee:
Edwards - yes
Dodd - yes
Clinton - yes
Kucinich - only an anti-war nominee.
Biden - hell no....just joking!
The debate turns to immigration.
Obama basically putting forward the Bush guest worker proposal. This guy's the hope for the Dems!?
Okay, Obama redeems himself by calling the driver's license issue as a "wedge issue."
Wolf ignores him and asks the same question. Move on, Wolf!
Now Wolf's going down the row on the issue of driver's licenses for immigrants:
Edwards - no
Dodd - waffles and then says "no."
Obama - yes
Clinton - no
Kucinich - takes issue with Wolf's description of "illegal immigration." He wants to cancel NAFTA (big applause)
Richardson - "Yes and I did it."
Biden - no
Wow, here comes education!
Oh dear, John Roberts frames it as teacher's unions vs. merit pay.
Dodd: supports merit pay for those who decide to work in disenfranchised communities not for those in elite schools.
Dodd - "NCLB is a disaster." Big cheers!
Kucinich is asked whether he disagrees with teacher's unions.
Kucinich speaks glowingly about the trade unionism. Big ups, Dennis!
"A Kucinich administration would be a worker's White House." Woo hoo!
Richardson wants to be an "education President." Proposes a minimum wage at 40K for teachers. Wants to "junk" NCLB. I hear that!
Clinton on merit pay: supports "school-based" merit pay for those who teach in poor areas. Wants to reward "collaboration."
Wolf won't let it go here - "what if there's a great teacher and a crummy teacher?" What if there's a crummy television presenter, Wolf? Can't we get rid of you!?
Biden raises the interesting issue of who decides what "merit" is among teachers.
Next issue - Pakistan. Biden is asked if the U.S. should continue to support Musharraf. He does not.
Pretty much all of the candidates saying the same thing on Pakistan. "Take off that uniform, Mr. Musarraf!"
I'd like to hear Kucinich on this issue; he might actually be the only one with a sensible anti-imperialist stance. How the hell can an American politician make any claims on what goes on in Pakistan. What are they - a bunch of viceroys?!
Hillary believes that the "War on Terror" is more important than democracy. Grreaaaat.
Kucinich: "Hello? Hello? You missed me." This debate is pathetic, a farce.
Now John Roberts frames a question about Iraq around the proposition that "The Surge" is working. Who let the Fox News goon into this debate? WTF?
Kucinich on Iraq - occupation is fueling the insurgency. Bring the troops home now. Don't give Bush another dime. Hell, yeah!
Strength through peace...(Blitzer butting in)
Obama thinks the troops are doing "a magnificent job." Really? Doing what exactly. I don't blame the grunts for the debacle, but it is a debacle. You can't have it both ways. If the war's wrong, you can't say that the troops are doing a magnificent job. Obama sucks.
It seems like every question tonight is a Republican talking point:
*Isn't the surge working?
*Aren't the teacher's unions evil.
*Shouldn't we bully Pakistan?
*Aren't driver's licenses for immigrants wrong?
Kucinich calls Edwards out for voting for free trade with China. Ouch! Dennis is on fire tonight. Edwards tries to laugh off the "trial lawyer" jibe, but that hurt.
Edwards won't bite on the question of whether his vote for China was wrong.
Now Clinton on NAFTA - "Was Ross Perot right on NAFTA?" She tries to laugh it off with a lame joke on charts.
"We need to take a look at it." That says nothing. I'm with Kucinich. Get rid of it.
Biden's totally wrong on this - "It's not the plan, it's the man."
No, no, no. NAFTA is fundamentally flawed. Kucinich trying to get in but can't.
Obama on nuclear energy. He supports it but doesn't know what to do with the waste. Why are there liberals who like this guy? He's further to the right than Clinton on just about every issue.
Obama claims to be about "Bold Leadership" but he doesn't back this up with anything. He's an empty suit. And friggin' right wing with it.
Now a question for Hillary about the "Boy's Club." Ridiculous question. Move on!
Hillary "isn't playing the gender card" but the "Winning Card." Lame Las Vegas joke.
Accuses other candidates of piling on because she's in front.
Campbell Scott again asks Hillary about "The Boy's Club:" "What did you mean..."
Hillary: "Campbell...." (with an air of disgust).
Edwards gets a big boo for talking about the differences between candidates. He's right but he's not getting any traction with this audience of Clinton-lovers. I reckon his campaign is just about over.
Ruh roh - it's time for the "undecided voters." I hate this shit. If you can't make up your bloody mind, why should I care what you think?
And of course the first one is a vet. Big hand from the audience of robots.
I take it back, good question on Iran. "How will you show us your leadership on this issue?"
Biden - "don't ratchet up the war." Calls out those who voted to call the Iranian National Guard a terrorist force. Hello, Hills?
Wow, Biden with the bold proposal to impeach Bush if he takes the country to war with Iran.
Now on to Clinton on her vote on Iran: "There is no basis for the fear of war with Iran." She claims that she has spoken out on the rush to war. Really? I must have missed that.
Favors "Aggressive diplomacy." What exactly does that mean? Brinkmanship?
Listen, Obama was just talking about nuke power a minute ago. Now it's a problem that Iran want nuke power? Why?
Now Edwards grandstanding on veterans. Yuck. Get on with it, John.
"We must stop Bush, Cheney and the neocons." Okay, better.
Good stuff from Edwards on this issue - "we've seen this movie before." Hell, yeah.
Obama: Calling out Hillary for her vote. Hello, Barack, you abstained on it. Hello?!
Okay, at least Obama says that he made a mistake by missing the Iran vote. Big ups for that apology.
Next question - is there any way to end the practice of private contractors in Iraq? Good question.
Richardson - pull out all the contractors (Not bad)
Another great question - this time about racial profiling at airports. Too bad this one wasn't lobbed at the GOP.
Edwards - nice job apologizing for his vote on the PATRIOT Act.
Edwards says that no torture will be tolerated.
Great snappy retort from Kucinich on the PATRIOT Act. "Yeah, I voted against it because I read it." Ouch.
Great answer here. "The President needs to vote the right way at the right time. Just imagine what it would be like to have a President who voted the right way the first time."
Calls for impeaching Bush but Blitzer tries to shut him down.
Biden: "There is nothing in the PATRIOT Act that allows profiling." Bullshit.
Next question - calling Lou Dobbs out for his ignorant bullshit about immigration. That's a ballsy move on CNN.
Richardson - demagoguing on the issue of Congress. Get on with it, Bill.
Okay, "Stop demonizing immigrants." I like that. "Stop building the fence."
Dodd on voting for the border fence. Tries a bit of Spanish. Lame move. He's in favor of a "limited fence." Booooo!
Obama now getting the boos. I have a feeling that Clinton has planted some boo boys in the audience.
Ouch. CNN came back from the ads late and missed the question. "Are you MLS in disguise?"
Dodd's talking but we have no idea about what he's talking about. Something about abortion, maybe the Supreme Court.
Blitzer: "Would you have a litmus test on abortion rights for Supreme Ct. nominee?"
Biden - wants a woman; wants a nominee that supports Roe vs. Wade.
Richardson - wants diversity; doesn't want a "no" answer on Roe.
Kucinich - wants litmus test on abortion, straight up. Also wants a healer in White House. Wants child care, pre-natal, etc. Blitzer cuts him off (Big cheers)
Clinton - talks about "privacy" but not abortion per se. She seems to be tipping her hat to Biden as an obvious cabinet member in her future admin.
Obama - would not appoint an anti-choice justice.
Final Grades:
Kucinich - A
Edwards - B+
Biden - B+ (for humor)
Richardson - B
Clinton - C
Dodd - C-
Obama - D
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